Author Topic: 2nd computer  (Read 6108 times)

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itsdavid

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2nd computer
« on: 2011-09-24 14:20:34 »
I have v8 running fine on david's computer. Debra's computer is on the same homenetwork via linksys router. On Debra's computer v8 is also installed and I am able to "open" the .tpdb8 file on david's computer.

Debra's computer "sees" the database just fine. It can even "Find" keyword queries and display the thumbnails. But, it cannot open the thumbnails. All of the database folders are gray and the thumbnails show the international "forbidden" sign.

When I try to open a thumbnail on Debra's computer, I'm presented a "Insert the Volume Labeled (which is the correct name of the folder on a USB drive(g:) connected to David's computer containing the photos), and the dialog box includes a drive letter "e:". I cannot add or change anything in this dialog box. I don't even have a drive "e:".

I've discovered I can do a keyword query on Debra's computer; note file file name of the thumbnail....and then visit David's USB Drive "G:" and open the photo but that clearly is not how things are supposed to work.

Apparently, ThumbsPlus on Debra's computer does not know where the " drive/folder can be found. What next?

Daan van Rooijen

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« Reply #1 on: 2011-09-25 09:38:38 »
If multiple computers share a database, they have to access their image files using the same paths, in this case presumably through Network Places in the tree. If David has been creating the thumbnails for these images through their local (to him) paths, for instance 'D:\MyPhotos\Holiday.jpg' and Debra tries to view them by that same path from her machine, it won't work correctly. I think that is what is going on here.
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itsdavid

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« Reply #2 on: 2011-09-25 16:02:13 »
It's nice to hear from you. In this case, the .tpdb8 file is in David's computer Public folder and all works fine on his computer. Debra's computer accesses the .tpdb8 file via Network, David's PC, Public (or some such location). She can open the db just fine and can even conduct Find Keyword queries; complete with thumbnail presentations. However, all folders are gray and no thumbnails will open.

As far as I've been ablt to tell, there is no other way for Debra's computer to access the database.

Thank you for your help.

--david

Daan van Rooijen

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« Reply #3 on: 2011-09-25 16:26:38 »
Hi David,

I'm sorry for not being more clear -- how she accesses the database doesn't matter. But once in ThumbsPlus, the way that you browse to your image files is important. Both users should go to these shared image folders through Network Places in the tree panel (or, use the same UNC path, or, both computers could have a drive letter mapped to the same network folder, I guess).

What should be avoided is that one user (you) sees the photos as regular local files and the other has to go through the network. Remember, you're sharing the database. So, if you make a thumbnail for an image named "C:\mypix\holidays\nycity.jpg", that will only work for you. When ThumbsPlus on the other computer sees that record, it won't work because there is no \mypix\holidays\nycity.jpg on ITS drive C: (and if by chance there were, it would still not be the file that's on YOUR drive C:). So, always use a common method of accessing those shared images.

Regards,

-Daan-
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itsdavid

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« Reply #4 on: 2011-09-25 21:44:17 »
So, if I understand you correctly, the thumbsplus database I've maintained for the past 15 years can not be used by another computer in my home?

I thought the .tpdb8 file on David's computer (which accesses and views the photos on a USB drive conntected to David's computer) would work for anyone who could access the .tpdb8 file on the same home network. I don't understand why it wouldn't work (assuming other users can only "read").

Daan van Rooijen

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« Reply #5 on: 2011-09-25 23:02:44 »
> So, if I understand you correctly, the thumbsplus database I've maintained for the past 15 years can not be used by another computer in my home?

No. I only explained the problem, I didn't say there are no solutions.

> I thought the .tpdb8 file on David's computer (which accesses and views the photos on a USB drive conntected to David's computer) would work for anyone who could access the .tpdb8 file on the same home network. I don't understand why it wouldn't work (assuming other users can only "read").

If my explanation was not clear enough: in its database, ThumbsPlus holds a record for each image file cataloged. When you double-click on a thumbnail to view and edit the original file, ThumbsPlus has to find the correct matching file; it has to match-up the thumbnail records to the corresponding files. It does so, basically, by looking at the files' full path and name:   .

So, if an image was originally cataloged as "\Photos\Hello.jpg" on a local (non-networked) drive named "Data", and you then take the database to another computer and open it there, ThumbsPlus will expect to find the file locally on THAT computer on a drive named Data in a folder named Photos. It has no way of knowing that the database was created elsewhere on a different system, and that the and were only valid on that other computer.

To avoid this, you have to make sure that all users catalog and browse the image files through the same path, which means they have to access them through the network. David too, even if the files are local to his computer.


Now, as for work-arounds, here are some options:

NOTE: Be sure to keep a backup of your database (and of your image files, for solution No.2)

1. If you can open and edit the database in MS-Access:
- Create a new test database (Database | New). Thumbnail a few images through their network path. Then open this test database from another computer and verify that you can see, browse and open those image files.
- In Access, compare the relevant field values between your original database and this test database to see how the 'local' records differ from the 'networked' records. Then use Search and Replace in your original database to update those field values to make them point to the files' network paths.

OR (easier)

2) In ThumbsPlus, use Drag and Drop to move all your image files to a temporary different location that has enough free space (this may take a while if you have lots of images and have to move them to a different drive). Then, from there new location, drag and drop them back to the original location, but this time access that original location through Network Places. Any keywords and annotations will automatically be moved along with the image files. (note: if you don't see Network Places in the three, the "Do not show Network Neighborhood" option in Options | Preferences | Disks & Folders is likely On (but should be off)).

OR (easier and faster)

3) On the 2nd computer, be sure that Automatically Remove Orphans and Automatically Create Thumbnails (Options | Preferences | Thumbnails) are both off. Open the database, lookup the USB-drive, and note that its folders are greyed-out because the corresponding images don't exist on this 2nd computer (which in fact is your problem). Now, in the tree, open Network Places too (a.k.a. Network Neighborhood on some Windows versions) and navigate to that same USB drive. Note that it doesn't show any thumbnails there yet.
And now for the Big Trick: drag and drop the greyed-out folders, which hold the orphaned thumbnails, onto their corresponding folders in Network Places. So, if a greyed-out folder is named 'Summer2011', drag and drop it onto 'Summer2011' under Network Places. This will magically match-up the orphaned thumbnail records with the corresponding files found in the USB drive's folders, but this time properly addressed through the network. Note: You will need Write access to the database to make these changes stick!
When you are done, you may want to go into Options | Preferences | Disks&Folders and in the "Exclude these drive letters" box, enter the letters of all local drives, e.g. CDE or CDEFG. Do this on both computers to make sure that nobody will ever scan his/her 'local' files into that common database again.
(If you'd prefer to perform this whole operation on the 1st computer instead, so you don't have to fiddle with permissions to the database, you have to 'orphanize' your images first, e.g. by exiting ThumbsPlus and then using Explorer to rename their folder, so that ThumbsPlus won't be able to find them when you next launch it).

I hope this helps!

-Daan-

ps: I have never tried any of these solutions with v8, but they used to work with v7 and I'd expect them to work in v8 too. Still, you should really back-up everything before trying any of them.
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itsdavid

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« Reply #6 on: 2011-09-26 16:19:28 »
Shame on me for being such a nit wit and lots of accolades to you for your detailed and lengthy explanation. It's greatly appreciated and I'll blend into the woodwork and take some time to digest your reply.

The trap I'm falling into is understanding why .tpdb8 doesn't know to look on the local g: drive for the pic regardless of who and where the .tpdb8 is accessed. Yes, absolute and relative paths have always confused me (which explains why I flunked kindergarten).

Thanks again.

--david

itsdavid

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« Reply #7 on: 2011-09-27 19:09:03 »
> So, if an image was originally cataloged as "\Photos\Hello.jpg" on a local (non-networked) drive named "Data", and you then take the database to another computer and open it there, ThumbsPlus will expect to find the file locally on THAT computer on a drive named Data in a folder named Photos. It has no way of knowing that the database was created elsewhere on a different system, and that the and were only valid on that other computer.

That's understood.

> To avoid this, you have to make sure that all users catalog and browse the image files through the same path, which means they have to access them through the network. David too, even if the files are local to his computer.

Do I understand the issue may be I have to "recatalog" 400gb of images?  When I converted .td4, I selected the network Public Folder as the .tpdb8 location. Both computers (david = 1 and deb =2) "Open"ed the database at that network location.

I'd like to show the "tree" on computer 1:

I've already learned I can't drag the g:
This is the "tree on computer 2:  

As you can see, I cannot drag the gray Pictures folder to the corresponding network location (see error).

--david

Daan van Rooijen

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« Reply #8 on: 2011-09-27 20:37:21 »
Hi David,

I'm a little dense right now (long day), but I think I forgot to mention one thing about that drag-and-drop operation of orphaned thumbnails: You can't do it with folders that contain sub-folders. First you have to drag and drop each sub-folder (to their corresponding subfolders in Network Places), and when those have been done, you can do the parent folders. Maybe that was the cause of the error that you got. So, please give that a try (also, when doing this on Computer 2, please make sure that you have write-access to the database).

If for some reason this approach does not work in v8 (which is possible..), I'd recommend the 2nd solution that I suggested, where you first move all images to a different, temporary location and then, from there, move them back to the original location but this time through Network Places. This requires a lot of free disk space, and a lot of time, but if you try this first with only a few files, just to see if it works, that should only take a few minutes of your time.

Good luck!
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itsdavid

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« Reply #9 on: 2011-09-28 13:45:09 »
I certainly respect your generosity with your time. I'm at a complete loss. I didn't anticipate spending hours and hours and hours upgrading from v7 to v8. Now, for one reason or another, the "Network" link won't open on computer 2....even though I can navigate through the network via Explorer (yes, the "do not show network" is unchecked).

And, for one reason or another, I discovered it appears I can't even do standard processes with v8 on computer 1; i.e., move an image to another folder. Everything I do returns a Microsoft database error or such.

Extremely frustrating. I only upgraded from v7 because I got tired of the splash page asking me if I wanted to upgrade. It's beginning to look more and more like a big mistake ;)

--david

Daan van Rooijen

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« Reply #10 on: 2011-09-28 13:57:29 »
Hi David,

Well, if you still have a copy of your v7 database, nothing should keep you from reinstalling v7sp2 again and enjoying its reliability! To get rid of that upgrade notice, just go to Help | Program Updates and tag the 'Never' box. Personally, I use v8 only to play and test things with, in its current state I don't recommend it for tasks other than simple browsing, viewing and editing of images. With v7, the methods that I suggested to allow the other computer to work with the database should work just fine.

Best,
-Daan-
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itsdavid

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END OF THREAD :)
« Reply #11 on: 2011-09-28 16:47:12 »
Funny you should suggest that. As it turns out, I spent today removing v8 and installing v7 and everything worked flawlessly (and I've never had a "network configuration" before). I can only guess there is some bug in v8, a conflice with 32 and 64bit boxes on same net (unlikely), or a problem with the .td4 conversion. I do know the first time I did a conversion, everything appeared and worked normal for local-only functions. However, I found a "phantom drive" (an ancient drive full of contents) full of gray folders which I simply deleted.

I think there may be more than one issue going on. Everything I tried (and I tried a lot over a week's time @ many hrs per day) didn't work as expected.

At lease now I know I thought I knew what I was doing to begin with.

Thanks for your help. I mean MANY thanks.

--david

Daan van Rooijen

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almost!
« Reply #12 on: 2011-09-28 17:21:11 »
My pleasure, and I'm glad to hear that things are working now, even if you had to revert to v7. By the way, if you have deleted a lot of records, you may want to run File | Database | Compact to permanently remove them from the database file. With databases, 'deleting' doesn't actually delete records, it just flags them as obsolete (that way, the application that controls the database doesn't have to rewrite the whole database file everytime that you delete a record).
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itsdavid

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done.
« Reply #13 on: 2011-09-30 00:48:32 »
To be fair, after I got everything running fine with v7, I then installed v8 and all worked just fine. Clearly, v8 offers lots of goodies over v7 and I don't want my tad glitch to cause others to wonder.

I've used ThumbsPlus for the past 15 years and there is nothing that can hold a candle to it.

--david